Hmm, I'm looking at this year's calendar and I see 26 weeks of 5 day weeks. If you count in 4 day weeks owing to Federal Holidays, I see another 3 weeks. Thus, without accounting for additional days they decided to take off, they've accounted for 79% of the school year in 5 day weeks.

Ya, that's not a lot. Of course it did take me all of one minute to look at an actual calendar before responding. Amazing how much hard work that was.

http://dist113.org/parents/Documents/2011-2012%20%20School%20Calendar%20FINAL.pdf

Richard Schulte,
The likely reason those PE teachers are the highest paid in the state is that they also serve as athletic directors or football coaches. Some districts choose to pay a lot for winning athletic teams. While I personally disagree with the choice, I wouldn't bash teachers in general for the choices made by a few district boards.

Few district boards making bad decisions? There are currently 760 gym teachers making over 100K in the state of Illinois. The highest salary for 2011 for phys ed was earning $203K.. Illinois teams must be zillion times better than our surrounding states because they have less than a handfull making over $100K and that includes all subjects

Mary P cry me a river. Is anyone taking into account how many years these teachers have been teaching? A first year isn't making 100k. Guaranteed. Veteran teachers who have been teaching for 30 years might ...why is that not ok? Longevity should be rewarded. Just like in any other profession. And PS--if you think teachers only work during school hours on school days you are cheating your mind on reality honey.

they wouldn't hire me, i am to educated, advanced degress in finance, and law, but don't have a teaching certificate, lets hearit for the unions to keep educated people out of our school system

Because a lack of punctuation, capitalization, spacing, and wrong word choices have nothing to do with it.

Owned

The state requires that you have a teaching certificate. District 113 doesn't even have a union.

You're right and that's why there are at minimum 150 applications for every open teacher spot in this area.

Actually Mary, you would be perfect as a Board of Education member. Highly educated, willing to tell that to anyone and everyone who will listen, and hates unions. You fit the profile!

Deadcatbounce: I dare you to try teaching for a week. You'd get eaten alive.

No reason to teach kids "B", especially kids with no learning disabilities.  With a computer and web, a kids can teach themselves and each other.    Heck, even IPADS have become invaluable to kids with learning disabilities.  Schools need to do FLIP-learning and hire facilitators.  One of the most amazing videos I have ever seen is this one about how kids in India are learning with a computer embedded in the wall of a slum.   No teacher "B", just the Internet.    You should watch this TED series.  
http://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_the_child_driven_education.html
Why should I go into a profession that a computer for the most part can do a lot better. I'm not a luddite like you. Put the best teachers on the web and hire facilitators/coaches for the classroom.
Let's be honest, places like Khan Academy are the future, not a teacher in front of a class of 22 kids.  The internet makes  Individualized education possible.   I totally expect you to disagree because you have such a stake in preserving the status quo.

"Bucephalus
11:09 pm on Sunday, March 18, 2012
Because a lack of punctuation, capitalization, spacing, and wrong word choices have nothing to do with it."

Well played Bucephalus. And ditto.

none in highland park

The salary of every public school teacher and administrator in Illinois is posted on the internet. Just Google. The salaries in Northern Illinois are astounding.

Yes, downstate teachers make a reasonable salary.

Remember with summer break, spring break, winter break and every holiday you can think of, teachers only work 8 months a year. It would be nice if everybody had a gig like that, but folks in the private sector actually have to work for a living. And folks in the private sector are actually responsible for their work product. Teachers claim no responsibility for the results of sending your child to public school.

And Highland Park is, after all, the only school district in Illinois.

But rachael you are again utterly and completely wrong. There are three making $29,880, $24,592, and $22,347. Two of the three teach at Highland Park. But in your math, I suppose that does equal "none."

All three Bucephalus are part time, but keep trying

Rachael (or should i know say "Mary Poppins") did not specify part or full time, she unequivocally said there were none who get paid under $20k. Those people do and unless they also only have to pay part-time rent/mortgage, part-time groceries, and part-time other life requirements, it doesn't matter that they are part-time.

First of all, I understand that spending two seconds to click on the link and notice that the calendar addresses "Half Day Inservice" would have required too much work for you. That's ok, I'll point them out. There are four.

Oh yes, the parties argument. Because rachael green has been secretly monitoring all the classrooms and has secretly discovered that that's all teachers do. She has managed to uncover the secret of teachers: movies and parties every day! I wish I knew your secret to finding out this information.

I watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail in World History 3 in High School. It was also one of the most informative and discussed things we did in that class since the teacher put in the effort to relate it to critical thinking.

Why did you change your name, Mary?

Mary Poppins- You must have gone to a good university for those advanced degrees in finance and law. I went to NOrthwestern and have 2 masters degrees in education and another masters from Loyola. - But with 15 years of experience both private and public sector, I now make 60K in a local public school. Of course, you have to take $60K and deduct the $2-3K I spend on my students (budget cuts- so I buy my kids extra snacks, pencils, and reward treats). Subtract another 2-3K for professional development workshops and professional organizations(budget cuts- so I pay my own way to stay top tier in my knowledge). Throw in union dues (which I would rather not pay but have no choice) and you subtract another 1K. I couldn't count on my fingers how many of my NU alum peers who chose to go into law, finance, or "consulting" asked me at the 10 year reunion "aren't you bored being in a public school? Don't you want to do more with your life?!" Ha! Teaching is not babysitting- and kids can't teach themselves by sitting in front of a computer. If you think this computer idea works, go put your 3 year old in front of an IPAD all afternoon and see how long it takes for the child to be diagnosed with ADHD. PUt a 13 year old in front of a Khan Academy and see how much "work" gets done. You want to know why the educational system in America is not better- Look in the mirror. When society treats teaching like the work for peasants, pauper quality is what you get.

Jelly Bean - kudos to you for kicking in some money toward your students - too bad the District isn't covering those costs. But last I heard, such unreimbursed business expenses are tax deductible, so perhaps you could get some of it back that way? Professional development expenses to maintain a professional certification may also be deductible - again, check with your tax professional.

Unfortunately I haven't heard any good news about deducting union dues. I often wonder why the Union isn't providing some of the necessary training for their members (perhaps free or at a greatly reduced cost) with some of those Union dues, then I get reminded that they tend to donate lots of the dues to Legislators running for office who favor their beliefs...

Next time you need some plumbing or electrical work done on your home or business why not hire someone from the parking lot of a Home Depot. Why would you want a fat, lazy, over paid union worker who has spent years learning his or her trade in an apprenticeship program. Or better yet, why don't you become a union member and get fat, lazy and rich.

dcb, thanks for taking the time to research this and then post it. What's going on with teachers' salaries in Illinois is horrendous.

Perhaps when Governor Walker is finished cleaning up Wisconsin, he could come on down here and do for Illinois what he's doing for Wisconsin. Walker for President. Walker has got my vote for President.

Number of teachers with salaries in excess of $100,000/yr. ($11,000/mo.):
Illinois = 7,576
Kentuck y = ZERO
Iowa = 2
Wisconsin = 4
Missouri = 11

Dead Cat,
You've cherry-picked a small slice of data and applied it to the entire teacher population to support your rant. Why don't you try using average values instead? Let me help you:
- The average public school teacher in the nation makes $50,319 (http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Public-School-Teacher-Salary-Details.aspx).
- The average public school teacher in Highland Park makes $53,456 (http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Public-School-Teacher-Salary-Details-highland-park-il.aspx). Wow, those greedy HP teachers used "the NEA and it's spawn" to steal an extra $3k from the taxpayers. I'm sure they're laughing all the way to the bank in their tax-payer funded limos.

I have no idea what silly national website Mr. DAD is going to, but it’s a lot easier and more accurate to go to the Illinois school reportcard site or even the District’s. The IL report card is the best site … http://webprod.isbe.net/ereportcard/publicsite/getSearchCriteria.aspx

As you can see the $53K avg salary for HP teachers that MR. DAD found is a joke. The average salary at HSD113, and this is not a joke, is $103K. Now let’s see if MR. DAD will reply with some more silly statistics.

Did you even read the report card? Allow me to quote from the salaries portion "...and may or may not reflect the actual paid salaries for the district."

It explicitly warns you that those are not accurate figures of the salaries and you then immediately went and claimed those to be accurate figures of the salaries.

Well done.

WOW Bucephalus, I said "more" accurate than the national website DAD was pulling data from. Can you read english? And yes more often than not this website is even lower than the actual. And yes I pulled all the salaries and did the math for you and this site is lower. Average is $112K at HSD113. If you know how to use a spreadsheet you can do the same by going to http://www.familytaxpayers.org/salary.php
Idiot!

Just what we want- to be compared to a state with some of the worst educational statistics in the country! Why didn't you choose Mississippi instead? If you're going for quality, that would be perfect. Have any of you considered number of years working, educational level attained, or other jobs some of these teachers may take on for their schools? Richard, if you really think tea hers only work eight months and never work while on breaks, you're sadly mistaken- again.

The personal income tax rate in Florida is 0 percent. The cost of living is much lower in Florida. It rarely snows in Florida and winter lasts about 2 weeks. Oh yes, the roads are in perfect shape. Any other silly questions that I can answer for you Sully?

don't forget the 3% COLA on the pension starting at age 61......your pension will double in 24 years.

So your 80K pension at 85 is 160K

And how many of those educators have extracurriculars/clubs/sports which significantly lengthen the amount of time they spend working?

Yes Bucephalus and the taxpayers also pay the extracurricular stipends which also pads the pension. I also know many noneducators that volunteer for extracurriculars for little money or none and don't get a pension for it. On top of that these guys run sports camps that pull in another $5K -10K for a few hours of work per day.

To Bucephalus,
The answer is none.I can not speak for all the above jobs but I can speak for the financial sector, and the IT sector. An eight hour day is very hard to come by. Unless you are actuall paid hourly. However then the company usually has a strict budget with no overtime allowed. Ask auditors how many hours they work. I would guess at least 12. As for IT usually they are on call through the late hours of the night. I am sure that they would love time for extracurricular activities, I am sure if they had passion for art they would love time in the day to go to an art club. If they are a sports fan I am sure they would love to coach a sport. I hope that answers your question. I did not even mention the 3 months off the private sector employees would love to have off in the summer.

No, you actually didn't even come remotely close to my question. For starters it is not none, there are many employees in D113 who earn coaching stipends. Breaking down an hourly pay rate without accounting for those on the time side (bug including their pay) is, at best, disingenuious.

Your answer was nonsensical, off-topic, and incorrect.

Bucephalus,
I understand that Vince did not add in the extra times some teachers spend doing crafts, coaching sports after school. However he also did not add in the benefits, paid sick days paid vacation days, that can carry over year after year. The retirment packages that they hardly pay into but by state constitution is guaranteed. So his numbers may be off you are right but I would assume these variables would put the hourly pay higher. Please do not try to argue this point unless you have the actuall numbers to back up that I am incorrect. We are not against teacher we are against the fiscal irresponsiblity of the government.

yes Financedr.....was waiting for the old but they do other things and then bring up the benefits, but lets looks at coaching for example for Bucephalus

teachers that coach at 219 ( I was unable to get 113 contract, they don't seem to put it on line and I was told I had to write in a FOIA, not even email) make $621 a week from their .0085x MA/5 formula.

That is $124.20 a day...say 2 hours coaching a day. $62 an hour and they do not really open it up to the public to come coach or volunteer( I tried more than once). say even 3 hours a day, practicing pm-6pm (which I don't think they do) is $41.40 an hour. So now you are rolling up there between an optometrist and a pediatrician.

This list of compensation is silly. My attorney's firm charges $400+/hr. Even the paralegals are billed out at 4 times the lawyer rate displayed on this "high paying jobs" list. Presuming that this is supposed to suggest that there is some lack of parity, I do think that if one surveyed the average lawyer's salary at the big Chicago area firms and used that benchmark what teachers were paid, they would be paid more, not less. I presume the point of the list is to show that there is a disconnect between area teacher pay and comp. for other similarly credentialed professionals in the area that causes some philosophical friction. My kid's teacher does not make what my lawyer, or accountant, or doctor, ... This would almost be as silly as comparing teacher salaries on the Northshore to those in Kentcuky, Indiana, Wisconsin, Iowa, or other rural lower living cost areas.

Teachers do more outside of the school day. The above doesn't factor in lesson planning, grading, responding to parent e-mails, etc. Just like students have homework, teachers have homework too. Teachers just don't keep track of time for the work they do at home like accountants, lawyers, or consultants may do.

"apolitical
1 hour ago
This list of compensation is silly. My attorney's firm charges $400+/hr."

but the Lawyer has to pay for his office..overhead...secretary..etc and who says all his hours are full every day...but lets play along... so your attorney is making $400 and hour (lets say all his hours are full...but we know they aren't) work 8 hour a day for 50 weeks...that is $800,000. The average attorney makes no where near that. between 43 and 167K

"Teachers do more outside of the school day. The above doesn't factor in lesson planning, grading, responding to parent e-mails, etc."

teachers in 219 get a planning period...5 days a week....are you saying your course isn't set up from year to year, that it takes a huge amount of time and that the plan changes that much? you can't grade most papers or plan during the three periods (lunch, planning period and study hall/office hours) that is in the contract?

my father was a teacher for 25 years....a union rep, a teacher rep and on the school board. I know how the system is flawed and all the arguments.

Lots of employees in lots of salaried professions do work after the typical workday. Sometimes you're asked to do something on vacation, etc. Do we get extra compensation for it? No. Teachers certainly perform a valuable function in society - but that doesn't mean they should be compensated differently from the private sector. The only reason why they are is because of the Unions and the strike threat. Even if a District isn't unionized, there's still an implied threat that the teachers in the District would simply decide to unionize.

Sounds like a plan to me. Perfectly reasonable, and not harsh at all.

I have several members of my family who are teachers, including my wife and daughter. Neither belong to a union, because they teach in a private and charter school respectively. My daughter is at school from 7:30 AM to, often, 8 or 9 PM. When she leaves at a reasonable time, she is investing time at home either evaluating student's performance or preparing for the next day. She's a Special Ed teacher, so she isn't even responsible for an entire class, but rather 7 distinct lesson plans for the 18 kids on her case load.

My wife teaches 7th grade history to children of varying capabilities. Her entire day yesterday (Sunday) was spent grading papers, preparing lesson plans for the week, a study guide for an upcomming test and writing the test.

Teachers work hard. They directly influence the future of our country, far more than say, the CEO of a company that makes 10M/year. That doesn't mean that teachers shouldn't be evaluated based on performance. They should. It doesn't mean they should have guaranteed jobs, they shouldn't. But if we want the best and brightest to go into teaching as opposed to, say, managing hedge funds, we need to compensate them competitively.

My bigger issue is with all the layers of administration. I understand in addition to a salary that is in the 6 figures, 112's superintendent gets a car, a housing allowence, healthcare fully paid for him and his family, and many other perks. Teachers pay a co-payment on their insurance.

In addition, we've had educators acting as Assistant Superintendents for Personnel, when a HR professional probably could do the same job for much less. We also have a number of curriculum coordinators that do what a group of teachers will do for a lot less.

David, there are ways that costs can be contained that people just don't look at before we get to salaries.

Sorry Walter, but the job of a CEO is a lot more complicated than a teacher and that is why CEOs are compensated so well, not anyone can do it. CEOs also happen to work all the time, 12 months of the year, night, day and on vacation, so that is why they get the big bucks. Steve Jobs did more to influence and change education for the better than any educator I know and he made millions, which is fine by me. The future is places like Khan Academy and flip learning and if you have no idea what I'm talking about do your homework.

My wife's a certified teacher - she taught 7th grade Science. I've also worked for about 4 years at the University level for the College of Education - where we taught teachers how to be teachers. I was the Systems Manager for a distance learning course that taught Asst. Superintendents to be Superintendents - so I truly understand all the aspects of the job. I understand they have administrative tasks to perform outside of the regular workday.

I still believe that the compensation model is wrong. Salaries are too high. There should be no automatic raises for either longevity or for taking more courses/advanced education.

I also agree that there are other ways to cut costs - we didn't need to spend $6M on Wolter's Field, and we don't need to spend millions more on parking lots over there either.... but that's a discussion for another thread...

I never said that teachers should work for free. I said that they're getting a salary, and that they shouldn't be getting extra pay for activities related to their job. In just about every job I've ever held, there was a job description that ended with the phrase "...and other duties as assigned by supervisor.". No one's saying that anyone should be treated like dirt, abused, etc. But being on a committee in the school, related to school matters shouldn't require additional payment beyond the salary already being paid.

Teachers don't get extra pay for "knitting" as someone said above. They do not get extra pay for going above and beyond for their students. They get extra pay when they do other jobs that are within the school, such as coordinating Science Olympiad, or coaching sports. Those duties are most often done after the school day and on weekends. Why should they not get compensation for that time? Walter is correct about the amount of time spent outside of the school that teachers spend working. Anyone who believes that a teacher only works 8 to 3 Monday through Friday has no idea what a teacher actually does. I continue to be amazed at the short-sightedness of so called intelligent people. The fact that teachers hold no value for you speaks volumes. And yes, anyone who constantly gripes about what teachers earn are saying you do not value them, so don't bother trying to explain what you "really meant".

According to Sully “Teachers don't get extra pay for "knitting" as someone said above. They do not get extra pay for going above and beyond for their students.” Well you obviously have never read a teachers’ contract. Here are some of duties you can do to earn extra pay …Field trip coordinator, Supervision, Team Leader for PE, Team leader for art, video taping board meetings, mentoring (I guess you can’t do this without pay ), and get this “Community Service” and one more professional development.

I can't figure out how a teacher has the time to coach or coordinate a science olympiad when all I hear and read about is how much time they spend doing lesson plans and grading papers. Yeah, they are the only ones spending time outside of the 9 to 5 time frame working on papers and such. Never any outside work is expected in the private sector. No quotas to meet or you are fired. No deadlines or the boss rides your behind and threatens to replace you with one of the many applicants he has for your job. Companies are closed next week due to spring break and don't bother in the summer cause they are closed then too.

I value teachers. But I don't value their excessive compensation and benefits packages. "They get extra pay when they do other jobs that are within the school, such as coordinating Science Olympiad, or coaching sports." - why? They're getting a salary. WHY should they be paid anything more for performing a teaching job in the school? Why not get the science teacher to coordinate the Olympiad? Why not get the PE teacher to coach the sports? There's several who are making well over $120K a year - that's not enough? They want more?

Why is it in other professions its okay to get paid "overtime" for work beyond your hours, but it isn't okay for teachers who go beyond their hours to get compensated just the same? I guess that doesn't count. Wow.

As I see it, from the perspective of my business, things were fine until right before election day 2008. The real problems with the economy didn't start until the Stimulus was enacted in February 2009 and Obamacare was enacted roughly a year later. BHO has destroyed the economy. Imagine the pain and suffering caused by BHO and his allies Pelosi and Reid.

Go ahead and remove this comment. All it means is that Demcrats are really scared about the upcoming election. With Governor Walker's victories in Wisconsin over the last year and the Republican landslide in the 2010 election, the writing is on the wall-it's all over the Democrats.

And, of course, Obamacare will be declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.

Sully, I really respect your opinion on things. Whatever Sully tells you, just believe the opposite and you'll know what the truth actually is.

I responded, but I guess the Democrats didn't like my response. Censorship at its finest.

Charlie, here is another response:

"Two things have saved Obama to date: the media and Obama's "blackness." Had it not been for either, Obama's choices would have been impeachment or resignation. Wait, there is a third choice...jail."

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/03/obama_versus_the_democrats.html#ixzz1pblkXwmz

I guess this comment will get taken down, but at least Sully, Mr. Hall and Charlie will enjoy it.

Richard. Never met a question you can answer, eh? Geez it's only a three or four word answer.

Who was the President who led this country into this economic turmoil 3-1/2 years ago?

I just flagged Mr. Schulte's guns, ammo and revolution comment as inappropriate. The more he rambles the more he sounds like a Stallin or a Hitler.

Mr Schulte,
I had to read your comment twice... "It's possible that civil war may follow the election of 2012. Guns and ammo have been flying off the shelves since BHO was elected. Why do you think that is?" Do you REALLY think the public is gearing up for a civil war? Sorry, but that sounds like a paranoid fantasy to me.
In answer to your question "Why do you think that is?"... 1) the shooting sports are growing in popularity and 2) gun owners are stocking up in anticipation of possible legislation (like the Clinton assault weapons ban) that may prevent them from buying a particular firearm in the future.

@Richard. Are you honestly promoting civil war because your side might not win the election? There were lots of people ticked off with America during the Bush era as well. When your side isn't in power, things won't go as you want them to. Darn. Best start a war to fix it, even if it means fighting our neighbors.

Yes, but the article is about higher compensation for teachers and that is what I want to comment on. If you want to complain about "Real Issues" such as your government being sold to the highest bidder, why did you bother to come to this news article?

" You get to pay into Social Security at the full rate but only get to collect one/third of your monthly benefit." complete falsehood

teachers do not pay in to social security for their teaching job.......if they work outside teaching they do and if they put in their 40 quarter they will receive social security (minus the windfall provision)

Thanks, I hate it when people like Jack make stuff up.

Teachers actually do have to pay into Social Security and TRS and they are only allowed to receive one.

social security is not taken out of teachers salaries. Please deerfield, stop it.

If they have a second job and earning over $70k per year, they must be bad at managing their finances. I didn't think these teachers had any time left for a second job! They are slaving away at preparing lesson plans every evening and during the summer months.

Let me get this straight, you think it is unfair that the teacher only receives one third SS benefit if they happened to have a second job in the private sector, when they retire. So this same teacher retires with a million dollar pension at 55 after 30 years of teaching, thanks to the taxpayer of IL and you see this as unfair about their SS benefit? The most you can receive from SS is approx $25k per year and that is at age 66, working over 40 years. I'll take the unfair teacher pension any day and they can keep all my SS.

" All my friends who are teachers have second jobs and pay into Social Security for those jobs at the full rate but only receive one/third benefit when eligible." just read it and still a false hood

look up the facts on the WEP (windfall elimination provision)

"WEP eliminating a monthly Social Security benefit .
No. While Social Security benefits are lower using the modified WEP formula, they are never totally eliminated. The maximum reduction under the WEP formula is $374 per month. ..."

What's the average teacher salary in Illinois? The pensions granted are a function of that. In our local Districts, the salaries are much higher, hence the pensions are also higher. Add in that past practice of salary spiking for the final 3 years of someone's career, and you had even higher pensions.

Personally, I'd rather we move to a defined contribution rather than a defined benefit model. Let the employee invest their money as they see fit. If it grows - fine. If it doesn't, that's their problem. No "cost of living adjustments" either - no more free money funded by the taxpayers.

In some Districts, teachers don't put anything into the pension plan - it's funded by "The School Board" - that further drives up the overall cost of compensation.

In the private sector, many companies have pension plans (DB), 401k plans (DC), and pay into social security. And 401k plans are company match. The 403b plans that teachers get are not. Private employees pay into pension plans just like teachers do. So I'm not really following your "public employees have it so much better than private" line of thinking.

Mr. Greenberg. The arguments that you make only make sense when you begin with a blanket assumption that teachers are overpaid. Other than ot say that it should be obvious, given the cost of living on the North Shore, why salaries would be higher in this part of the state, I don't intend to engage you in an arguement. If you want to see lower salaries, look at other parts of Lake County.You should be plesed as you get to North Chicago, Round Lake and Waukegan.

I do wish you luck in bringing your ideas to fruition in District 113 which isn't organized. There is an old saying that, "the boss is the best organizer."

John,
You are right about the 401k's being matched by the company however you forgot to mention that 401k's can loose their entire principle if the market falls. This is a risk that is taken, nothing is guarnteed. Howeve the public employees pensions give them 80% final salary. This is guaranteed. Also 401k's I believe are capped at 20k a year. I do not understand why people think that private sector retirement programs are guaranteed?? They are not a public employee can literally spend every cent they make and when they retire get 80% of their final salary for the rest of their life. Now what private sector job can promise.that. None without going bankrupt. Please people look into the debt crisis in greece and you will see where the country is heading. Educate yourselves before you throw stones.

I was comparing the 401k, company matched program to the 403b non-matched. Both are investments controlled by the employee that could lose all value if not invested appropriately.

As far as pension plans, they are professionally managed whether they are public or private, so I don't understand your point. Either type of employee is guaranteed their pension unless somethng bad happens. Teacher pensions plans have gone belly up just like companies have gone bankrupt. There is no truly safe money.

Both types of employees can retire broke and still collect their pensions. How much money you have at retirement is irrelevant so that statement makes no sense. So maybe YOU should educate yourself about pension plans, 401ks, and IRAs before making statements.

And where did you come up with guaranteed 80%? CPS has a tiered plan based on years of service that caps out at 75%. Every school district has a different plan. You really have no idea what you're talking about.

according to Mr Stein the average teacher pension is $43k, but he forgets to tell you that includes part time teachers and teachers that taught only a few years so hence they do not qualify to receive a full benefit.   You got to fact check these people to keep them honest.

Mr. russillo  you have no idea what you are talking about .  For all the ignorant russillos and steins out there the following is a history of Il teacher pension enhancements since 1971.  
First fact, if pension rules were the same now as when we guaranteed pensions during the 1970 Constitutional Convention, there would currently be a pension surplus not a pension deficit. 
Before 1970, there were few substantive changes to the pension rights granted to retirees. Afterward, the teacher unions worked their legislative magic and got increased benefit after increased benefit passed-starting immediately in 1971. It was like Custer at the Little Big Horn, except the taxpayers didn’t know about the slaughter until 40 years later. 
continued ...

Here is a partial list of the 130TRS pension enhancements passed by a compliant legislature and governor at the expense of every Illinois taxpayer: 
• 1971 – Pension maximum raised to 75% from 60%. Ogilvie 
• 1971- Annual COLA raised to 2% from 1.5% Ogilvie 
• 1971- No pension reduction if younger than 60 with 35 years service. Ogilvie 
• 1972 – 85 sick days (1/2 year service) allowed for early retirement. Ogilvie 
• 1973 – Survivor benefits paid at age 50 instead of 55. Ogilvie 
• 1978 – Annual COLA raised to 3% from 2% (not compounded) Thompson 
• 1979 – ERO (Early Retirement Option) allowed. Thompson 
• 1980 – Retiree health insurance program established. Thompson 
• 1982 – Employer pick-up of employee contributions allowed. Thompson 
• 1983 – Unmarried children over 18 eligible for health insurance coverage. Thompson 
• 1984 – Sick leave credit upped to 170 days from 85 days. Thompson 
• 1990 – 3% COLA compounded. Thompson 
• 1990 – Survivors get COLA. Thompson 
• 1990 – Disability and pensions added for part-time and substitute teachers. Thompson 
• 1991 – Retiree health care premiums 75% subsidy. Thompson 
• 1998 – Waive Early Retirement cost – 34 work-years becomes 35 years for pension. Edgar 
Continued ...

Every one of the above items added to taxpayer cost- $100′s of billions over the decades. Just the COLA going from 1.5% not compounded to 3% compounded increases the pension payout by 30% over a 30 year retirement life expectancy. 
Based upon this 130 item, 40 year rap-sheet, teachers should be paying a minimum of 15%. 
Just the pension alone demands 13%, and the benefit enhancements are not limited to just pensions. In 1991 alone, there were enhancements for optional service credit, survivors’ annuities, disability retirement, backdating benefits by 90 days, and annual increases for revisionary annuities. Each one of these benefits adds to the cost of TRS pensions, and in none of these cases were the teachers asked to contribute more. Every single cost was borne by the taxpayer. Multiply this by over 100 other benefit increases since 1970 (let’s not forget end of career boost in salaries of over 30%) and taxpayers liability has increased enormously.  Any sane person would see that this is not Sustainable!

I don't see how that disputes anything I said but if it makes you feel smart, go for it.

Mr. Stein: Sure, the cost of living is higher in Chicagoland, and more so in our area. However, you're assuming that all the teachers employed by our District actually live in our District. There are more than a few who do not. There's several Wisconsin license plates in the parking lots every day. Why would someone want to commute from another state every day if not for a high salary?

Mr. Russillo: 401k plans can match or not - it depends on the whim of the Company, and how much they make in profits. As I've mentioned previously, school districts don't make profit, so there's no reason why tax payers should give away money to employees when their salary exceeds a certain level (I've always advocated $50K). If the employees want to save their money, they should be given a tax-advantaged vehicle to do so, but if they want a pension, they should fund ever-increasing amounts themselves. So starting at $50K, the taxpayers should make lower and lower contributions as the salary goes up. When it reaches $90-$100K, the taxpayers should contribute nothing to the pensions.

With all due respect, Mr. Greenberg, I don't think that the fact that teachers who work in Highland Park may live as far away as Wisconsin supports your point. I think it make mine. Most young teachers don't make anywhere near the type of salaries that are being talked about here. They can't afford to live in this area. Hence, the Wisconsin plates that you see. If you make it so that there is less and less incentive to stay in one place through a career, you will succeed in creating a transient workforce.

Perhaps Mr. Stein, but one could also argue that they came here for the high salaries and benefits packages. And since they're not paying property taxes in our community, they are more than happy to have and demand those high salaries and benefits packages because it's not costing them anything. At the risk of being considered presumptuous, one could certainly argue that one could have a nice way of life here in Highland Park or Deerfield if one is making $80K, and certainly $100K+/yr. But unless that teacher has kids that they'd like to send to our schools, why would they want to spend more money on taxes (State and Local) when they could reap the benefits in exchange for some commuting? This isn't unheard of all over the country. There was a recent article in BusinessWeek on those I believe they termed "Super Commuters". The reasons why may vary, but in some cases, certainly it's all related to one's cost of living.

As for the salaries - I'm not talking about young or old teachers. I'm just looking at the compensation level. When someone exceeds say $50K, I just happen to believe that the social compact for funding their pension starts to change, and we need to contribute less and less as their salary goes up. The cost of running the schools is a huge impact on our tax bills, and after a certain point (which I believe we've passed), it's a negative on our property values and our way of life.

Let’s make one thing clear CPS uses a completely different pension program than all other IL teachers. Let us look at the argument of employers not matching 403b’s. At first this sounds very unfair, however a closer look we notice that this investment opportunity is strictly for non-profit and government employees. Now ask yourself if public employees invested in 403b’s and their employer matched the investments, who would be matching the investment? The answer would be the taxpayers. So clearly not choosing to match makes sense seeing that they already have a defined retirement pension package when they sign a contract. Also, do not forget the employer can match the 403b plans so not every 403b is unmatched but I can guarantee that no private for profit business can invest in 403b. Now for pensions going bankrupt again refer to the pension protection clause. This clearly states the following. “Membership in any pension or retirement system of the State, any unit of local government or school district, or any agency or instrumentality thereof, shall be an enforceable contractual relationship, the benefits of which shall not be diminished or impaired.”  Ill. Const.1970, art. XIII, § 5. This seems like a safe place to have money. The amount of money you save/have when you retire does matter in the private sector any arguement on that is goes against logic

To ditto what Mr. Stein mentions above, TEACHERS DO NOT PAY INTO SOCIAL SECURITY.

Yes "B", teachers don't pay SS tax and what does that got to do with anything?

Teachers have been made an easy target. While other sectors can go neglected, pols. of both parties have somehow made educators the enemy. Keep people focused on teacher issues and they may not notice the millions that CEOs are making while taking advantage of tax loopholes or corporate welfare. They may not notice the multiple layofffs while companies are making huge profits for themselves. We want our less fortunate to stay that way!

Right Richard. Nothing had happened in Wisconsin until the teachers, without cause, randomly decided to go after the poor, innocent Scott Walker.

Is it do hard to present a viewpoint without smothering it in insults? Perhaps that's why your posts keep getting pulled. I don't think it's crazy to believe that it's possible to explain your viewpoint without insulting everyone with whom you disagree.

What makes teaching such a special profession that we're not allowed to talk about the salaries and benefits awarded to those who are in it? If someone's skin is so thin that they can't handle a discussion of their taxpayer-funded salary/benefits, then I sure don't even want them to try and be in charge of anyone's children. Kids are 1000% rougher than adults... So yes, I give kudos to those who enter the profession, but that doesn't mean I'm going to give them unlimited salaries and benefits.

Well David, if you don’t agree that teachers are just the most worthy people on earth and deserving of unlimited compensation then you set yourself up for ad hominem attacks, non sequiturs, half-truths and straw men from the likes of Sully, Mr Stein and Bucephalus. You read nothing from them on the sustainability of teacher compensation plans and pension benefits and that’s because they either can’t do math or are benefiting directly or indirectly themselves.

Oh ya it was a huge root. It burned down half of Madison and killed thirty-seven people, all peaceful Republican legislators. And don't forget the babies that the teachers ran over with their Priuses.

Fox news did make it up. They took stock film from demonstrations that took place during the Florida recount. They actually showed film that included palm trees in the background when they claimed that there was a "riot" in Madison.

It is strange Mr. Schulte would bring up the Madison non-riot and FoxNews's embarassing role in fabricating an incident that has been so thoroughly vetted and ridiculed. The right wing boggles the mind.

There was no "riot." A press release issued on March 5 by city of Madison police spokesman Joel DeSpain noted that, for the third weekend in a row, demonstrations had been peaceful. He further said that there had been no arrests and no citations during the start of the weekend (March 4 and 5) where tens of thousands of protesters were present.

Oh yeah- so that would be a "no", you did not hear any threats coming from teachers. I googled death threats and Walker too, Rich. Seems they were posts on Facebook and Twitter. Hmm. I also found a lot of links to Walker opponents receiving death threats as well. Didn't you want to point that out too?

well, I found this on death threats ... A 26-year-old woman was charged Thursday with two felony counts and two misdemeanor counts for allegedly making email threats against Wisconsin lawmakers during the height of the battle over Gov. Scott Walker’s budget-repair bill.

Katherine R. Windels of Cross Plains was named in a criminal complaint filed in Dane County Criminal Court.

According to the criminal complaint, Windels allegedly sent an email threat to State Sen. Robert Cowles (R-Green Bay) March 9. Later that evening, she allegedly sent another email to 15 Republican legislators, including Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau).

The subject line of the second email was: “Atten: Death Threat!!!! Bomb!!!” In that email, she purportedly wrote, “Please put your things in order because you will be killed and your families will also be killed due to your actions in the last 8 weeks.”

“I hope you have a good time in hell,” she allegedly wrote in the lengthy email in which she purportedly listed scenarios in which the legislators and their families would die, including bombings and by “putting a nice little bullet in your head.”

According to the criminal complaint, Windels told investigators “I sent out emails that I
was disgusted and very upset.

Sully you need to try harder and go to this blog for all the threats from teachers and public employees in Madison. This person has been reporting on Wisconsin politics for a long time and is a univ of wi professor in the law school.

Website ... http://althouse.blogspot.com/

Thanks, fish. Beautifully expressed.

Thank you, this is the most valuable post here.

Unfortunately "B" the issue under discussion is overpaid teachers and not about overpaid basketball players.   Besides, my tax money isn't used for prof. basketball players' salaries, so what do I care how much they get paid.  This is a perfect example of "B" using a red herring, over paid politicians or sports figures, to divert attention away from the issue of overpaid teachers and administrators.   Another thought, if teaching is so tough, why is there over 150 applications for each opening right now?  At my job, we can't find workers with the requisite skills.  

Too bad those posts got pulled B. Honestly, the issue isn't a lack of respect for anyone - sorry if you're taking it that way. Rather, the issue is that of the rate of pay and benefits granted to teachers. In public schools, that money comes from the taxpayers. We're all cutting back, doing more with less, not getting raises, not having 401k's matched (or funded at all), paying more for health care, and so on. In the meantime, the teachers unions are demanding that their members get raises which are often larger than what is granted in the private sector, getting their pensions funded, and so on. All at the taxpayer's expense. Sorry, but it's long past the time for the taxpayers to get the respect they deserve - from all taxing bodies. Spend less. Do less if you need to. But we need relief from the burden of taxes, and at least in the District's here - the vast majority of the burden is for the school districts - so if we want relief, it's going to have to start there.

What happened to B's rant about overpaid basketball players?

well stated fish---nice to see a post stick along the lines of the topic---it's unfortunate that some here have chosen this venue to continue carrying out personal vendettas against each other---and in doing so completely lost track of the topic---perhaps it might be best for the patch to close the door on this one

Stop calling them riots unless you can produce some info that proves it. The definition of riot is as follows:
A riot is a form of civil disorder characterized often by what is thought of as disorganized groups lashing out in a sudden and intense rash of violence against authority, property or people. While individuals may attempt to lead or control a riot, riots are thought to be typically chaotic and exhibit herd behaviour, and usually generated by civil unrest. However, there is a growing body of evidence to suggest that riots are not irrational, herd-like behaviour, but follow inverted social norms.[1]

Riots often occur in reaction to a perceived grievance or out of dissent. Historically, riots have occurred due to poor working or living conditions, government, oppression, taxation or conscription, conflicts between ethnic groups, food supply or religions (see race riot, sectarian violence and pogrom), the outcome of a sporting event (see football hooliganism) or frustration with legal channels through which to air grievances.

Riots typically involve vandalism and the destruction of private and public property. The specific property to be targeted varies depending on the riot and the inclinations of those involved. Targets can include shops, cars, restaurants, state-owned institutions, and religious buildings.

The teachers' riot has continued for 14 months. The Wisconsin Supreme Court election, the recall of Wisconsin State Senators and now the recall of Governor Walker are all part of the teachers' riot.

The violence and property damage which occurred at the teachers' riot in February 2011 would never have occurred at a Tea Party rally.

Real professionals would never participate in anything like the Madison teachers' riot in February 2011-such a poor example for America's children.

Please give a source for your info. It's still hard to see how this situation fits the definition of a riot and not free speech.

This doesn't seem like civil disorder among disorganized groups. Also it is not fair to compare lawyers and doctors who are almost 100% small business owners or self employed vs. teachers who are paid by the gov. They are the employees and not the owners. Owners of businesses don't strike against themselves.

Rush has a great reputation, that's a good guy for you to get behind.

Rush Limbaugh is America's foremost advocate for small government conservatism. There are discussions of politics, history and the US Constitution on Rush's show 3 hours a day, 5 days a week for nearly 23 years. Quite informative and Rush is quite humorous too.

Rush's website is also an excellent record of his shows.

Is Rush's a biased commentator? Yes, no doubt about it. Rush makes no pretense that he has unbiased viewpoint. In fact, no one has an unbiased viewpoint. ABC, CBS and NBC are not an unbiased source of news, neither is PBS.

Walter Cronkite, "the most trustest man in America", was ,in fact, extremely biased, but pretended to be an unbiased source of news.

Sully thinks he is unbiased observer. He has no clue that he is just as biased as I am.

I would also recommend Mark Levine, Dr. Thomas Sowell and Dr. Walter Williams.

Rush is on the air only for his entertainment purposes, not for his great thinking. That was evident recently when he made poor word choices, that forced advertisers to leave him (and those weren't left wingers). He is not a news reporter. Howard Stern has had a radio show for longer than that is "quite informative and quite humorous". You still have yet to make your point, and if you have to reply with, "Rush Limbaugh is America's foremost advocate for small government conservatism", again you are stating facts that aren't facts. Where is reported that Rush holds this title? We can all argue that we are all advocates to small business. Teachers are not a small business.

Steve Sommerfeld just had to bring up Howard Stern, who I happen to like, but come on with the quite informative and Rush is not ... This is quite humorous though ...
PROF. JACOBSON: Carbonite’s Howard Stern Hypocrisy: “Stern is notorious for his demeaning antics towards women, including highly sexualized episodes on his show for decades. Yet none of that seems to bother Carbonite.”

The point is Rush and Howard are both out there to entertain. Howard doesn't disguise himself as a political activist. As far as information, if you really listen to Howard Stern he is reporting the same news headlines Rush does during the news segments and he is giving the same information, although in my opinion, in a more truthful delivery.

Only someone who has actually done that would think of doing that.

I appreciate Patch's commitment to free discourse on political subjects.

The censorship practiced by some who have participated in this discussion needs to be condemned.

Although I disagree with Sully, I have no objection to him expressing his viewpoint. In fact, I encourage Sully to express his viewpoint. The more Sully expresses his viewpoint, the more readers will know that he is expressing an extremely radical leftist viewpoint.

The viewpoints expressed by me on Patch are based upon common sense. When common sense is being censored, then you know that we have a big problems in America. And yes, we have big problems in America right now.

Hey look at that its an editorial, which goes on to state tons of opinions , but no facts. Opinions are not facts and citing an opinion doesn't make you right. But let me take s great quote from there.

"As many have observed, substituting “Jews” for “capitalists” exposes strikingly similar thinking."

Let's substitute "unions" in there and see just how much lines up.

'black folks'. Really? New Orleans great race relations? Really? Ever hear of the 9th ward? It's the area of New Orleans that your hero Bush 43 let drown after Katrina.

Rich, you are really stretching no truth when you accuse the Dems (lead by an African American President, by the way) don't are about 'black folks'. Oh, 'black folks' are smart too.

The Republican Party is leading efforts in many states to require additional voter ID that will prevent up to 5 million 'black folks' from voting. The Republican Party! In the name of mostly non existent voter fraud. You've got your facts all in a bunch again, Rich. You're entitled to your opinion, but to your own facts.

Sully: will Rich defend the actions of Zimmerman in this terrible shooting? Will the NRA defend the right of civilians to chase down 'suspects' and shoot them? They and the Republican Gun Toters are strangely silent. No outrage, no defense. Nothing.
I'd really be upset to hear them defend it, but I think I'm about as upset that they are not outraged by it .

irresponsible and crude beyond comprehension---to drag the horrific shooting of a 17yo kid from FL into this format as a means to carry on your war of ideology with another poster is just plain sick---I sincerely believe you need to apologize to the entire Patch community for such insensitive behavior

So others bring up "issues" like accusing current Democrats of attempting to reinstate slavery and calling for a civil war are ok, but as soon as someone makes a harsh point that doesn't support your ideology its suddenly "insensitive?"

Bringing up the Martin shooting is no worse than calling for an armed uprising.

Thanks

I apologize.

Once again, thank you, fish. Another thoughtful, dignified post that reflects well on both you and your profession.

How much should a teacher make? Less than what we're paying in our Districts now. Teachers used to make less than they could in the private sector, so we returned the favor by funding pensions for them such that they'd be taken care of in their old age. Fast forward to today - teachers are making as much as they could in the private sector, or exceeding it - AND we're funding pensions, AND we've giving out better healthcare coverage AND we're being asked to pay extra for so-called additional duties. That's too much.

Sure, the education is a quality one. But that doesn't mean we need to spend an inordinate amount of money on it. Certainly given the amount of teachers available in the pipeline (estimated at 60,000 by the ISBE), we could find some quality teachers who could do the job as well, if not better, than the incumbents - and they'd do it for less money.

David, I understand that most that are not in education think we should get less. When you stated "less than now," felt by you and others, what specific reduction percentages in salary, health benefits and pension benefits do you think is fair? I don't know myself what would be justified in many of your eyes. I am just curious.

I don't believe that teachers at the elementary or high school level should make more than $100K/yr. Administrators should not make more than $120K/yr. It's supposed to be a publicly-funded job, a "public servant" if you will - the social compact being that if you want to make more money, you have to work in the private sector. But if you choose to work in the public sector, then the deal is you make less, but we fund your pension so you're covered in your old age. The idea being that you've been making less, so you haven't been able to save as much for your retirement. That's why I believe that as the salary level goes up, our funding of the pension should drop in a corresponding manner until at the cap, our funding is zero - the employee should of course be free to set aside money from their salary toward their pension. Health benefits should be primarily funded by the employee. The role of the District in healthcare should be in enabling the employees to get a group rate lower than they could get on their own

However David, this is supposed to be a free market economy. Why shouldn't teachers be able to take advantage too? Simply because they are government workers? If that's the case, why is congress allowed to give themselves raises? Do you really think many people would want to go into a profession that at this time is vilified and thankless and also has such a low ceiling? Sounds like you agree with the notion of destroying public education.

Sully you should not bring up free market economy in an arguemnet about public workers. In a totally free market there would be no public school. It would be privatized and their would be vast competition.No unions, unions are the opposite of free market. If people want to teach and want to prove they are good teachers we should adopt a voucher system. When someone is guaranteed they wont get fired, what motivation do they have to do a good job?

$100K/yr for teachers, $120K/yr for Administrators is what you call a "low ceiling"? Sorry but we disagree on that point. If someone can't survive on $100K/$120K/yr then that's their own personal issue to contend with, there's no reason why the taxpayers should have to pay more.

Perhaps that's because with today's watered down curriculum and educational standards set by politicians instead of actual educators, American K-12 education lags far beyond that of other countries. Money and time is constantly being taken away from the sciences, so how are Americans to compete? That is the short-sightedness of today's politicians and that will be the downfall of any competitive edge this country may have once held.

Mr. Schulte:

No offense, but I am not surprised you have zero income. I would not hire you to do work for me, given what you write here and the frequency in which you post. You might consider your "Google" reputation -- anyone in business who performs their due diligence and views your nonsensical rants on numerous Patch forums is not going to take a chance on a potential lunatic. You can blame the state of Illinois all you want for your failures, but more than likely you're responsible for the irreversible damage to your own career.

Now that's an optimistic view of the future. Down with traditional learning, employment, and standard of living. That's a rallying cry I think we can all get behind.

They never learn because they are Luddites. Priced themselves right out of a job. Watch this amazing video. Kids can teach themselves, all they need is a facilitator or coach. Put best teachers on the web ... http://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_themselves.html

Is your wife a private or public school teacher? If public, she isn't teaching in the chicago suburbs. Starting pay for someone with a masters is in the $50Ks and a teacher with 11 years experience, Masters is earning in the mid or upper $70Ks. If she is private, I'm sorry to inform you that the issue under discussion is the compensation of public school teachers in this area, not all teachers everywhere!

Sorry, Deadcat, but your figures are incorrect. Here in Grayslake, we have plenty of full-time elementary school teachers with Master's Degrees on staff earning less than $50,000. Insurance is good for the teachers themselves, but coverage for spouses and children must be paid for by the employee.

Well nightcrawler you can just go to the graylake website and get the salary schedule, http://www.d127.org/Depts/hr/Document%20Library/2011-2014geacontract.pdf.
No need to get information second hand. someone with a masters starts at $47K to $51K depending on number of hours. At 11 years the salary is $66K to $72K, depending on hours. Since the majority are +30 hours, I'm not too far off and this school isn't even on or near the north shore! Again you got to fact check these people.

here is the other grayslake school contract elementary schools... http://www.publicschoolspending.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Grayslake-CCSD-46.pdf
For FY11 start at $39K-$48K masters, 11 years $53K to $63K. One additional point on this contract, the district makes the TRS contribution for teachers and it's not taken out of pay. Add another 9% to those salary figures to get actual salary. Again I'm not far off what I said before and this school is not on north shore or in wealthy suburbs

"the district makes the TRS contribution for teachers and it's not taken out of pay"

Seriously, this is about the fifth time you've said something that is proven untrue if you had bothered to read the article you posted. Allow me to provide the the quote:

Page 24
"Any amount due the TRS shall be deducted from the teacher's salary and remitted to the TRS by the district."

But I suppose you could be right in that "shall be deducted from the teacher's salary" obviously means not a penny will be deducted from the teacher's salary.

Sorry I was looking at page 25 and rushing out the door. The percentage the board remits is .8 percent, not 8 percent which I misread. I also don't consider grayslake a Chicago suburb, it's not even in cook county. I would expect the salaries at this school would be similar to Rockford. I also do not think teachers are underpaid in this district when you look at the full compensation package including pension, paid health care, sick leave credit, nine month job, no risk of being fired, etc. Also, please notice a retiring teacher receives an automatic 6% raise the last four years of their career. What is wrong with $63k after 11 years?

What are the five false statements i've made Bucephalus? Please, I really want to know. please post as soon as possible.

Another extra bonus in the contract is that after 16 years and teacher goes off schedule the annual raise is automatic 4.5%. It looks like this contract is backloaded for the senior staff. Just stay around for 15 years!

For God's sake that's not even Illinois.

There are 3.6 million teachers in the nation (Here's the link for that http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=28). Of course someone will do something crazy. It doesn't prove anything except that 1 person in 3,599,999 will do something stupid. Bravo.

You're an idiot if you truly believe that firing EVERY social studies teacher in the nation is a brilliant idea because of what one guy in Virginia did.

But hey, this is America, stereotyping the actions of one person and applying them to everybody is totally cool and entirely within our tradition. So that one soldier who went on a killing rampage, he's obviously the typical American soldier. And Zimmerman, down in Florida, is a typical neighborhood watch captain who'll shoot at anything. Oh and Rush Limbaugh, being a drug addict (OxyContin) represents all conservatives who must all therefore be drug addicts.

But there's nothing wrong with taking one person and applying them to everyone.

According Bucephalus … “You're an idiot if you truly believe that firing EVERY social studies teacher in the nation is a brilliant idea because of what one guy in Virginia did.
I’m not the only one idiot I guess. Social Studies class has been become one big indoctrination camp. This teacher just happened to get caught, there are many more just like her.
Can anyone tell me which converted lefty, who also happens to be one of our most famous playwrights, said the following?
Education, he said, is an elaborate scheme to deprive young people of their freedom of thought. He compared four years of college to a lab experiment in which a rat is trained to pull a lever for a pellet of food. A student recites some bit of received and unexamined wisdom—“Thomas Jefferson: slave owner, adulterer, pull the lever”—and is rewarded with his pellet: a grade, a degree, and ultimately a lifelong membership in a tribe of people educated to see the world in the same way.
“If we identify every interaction as having a victim and an oppressor, and we get a pellet when we find the victims, we’re training ourselves not to see cause and effect,” he said. Wasn’t there, he went on, a “much more interesting .  .  . view of the world in which not everything can be reduced to victim and oppressor?”
A final thought from Victor Hanson … This country’s in deep trouble when little Johnny thinks Harriet Tubman, not Grant and Sherman, won the Civil war.

“Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.”
― Ronald Reagan

Oh Richard, you misunderstand. No guilt here. Only pity for one so sure of everything that is false. You don't deserve contempt; you honestly believe everything you say. Unfortunately, the mental health system in this country is ill prepared to treat your condition. Good luck to you, Rich.

I have statistics because I back my comments up with numbers ... in any large population, there will be some crime. The only way to see what these numbers mean is to compare concealed-carry holders to the general population. Fortunately, state-level murder data are easy to find.
North Carolina has a statewide murder rate of about 5 per 100,000. Even without counting manslaughter, that’s 25 murders committed per 100,000 North Carolinians every five years. There are about 230,000 valid concealed-carry permits in North Carolina, so by pure chance, you’d expect these folks to be responsible for nearly 60 murders over five years. And yet only ten of them committed murder or manslaughter. Deonstrating yet again that permit holders are more peaceful than the general population.

I guess you can assume anything you like since you seem to think putting words into someone else's mouth is legitimate.

Deadcat, there were over 200 felonies by permit holders in North Carolina and over half of those did not have their permit pulled as they should have.

By the way, just in case you don't see the problem. So many states now have reciprocity and if one State is not policing it's permit holders and yanking them from violent felons, it means they have a permit to carry in one of the States recognizing North Carolina permits even though they may be a convicted felon. The system does not work. Zimmerman was convicted of crimes, held prejudice against African American's, disobeyed law enforcement orders and still had a permit to carry. He was a time bomb waiting to explode. How many more out there?

RB you need to supply statistics or your rants are meaningless. 200 feleonies when (what year) and what's the felony rate in the general population. There's crime everywhere, but your comments suggest that crime is worse because of permit holders. How many crimes have been thwarted by permit holders. You never hear about those stories because that doesn't fit the narrative our liberal media wants to tell.

How many felonies? What year? What does that matter? North Carolina clearly has not pulled the permits from convicted felons. If they can't manage a concealed permit program that keeps guns out of the hands of felons what good is it? You pulled selected data for murders and misdemeanors, not for all felonies and failed to check if permits were pulled once a holder is convicted of a serious crime. That's what I pointed out. I was not pointing out whether the crime rate of permit holders is higher or lower than the general population.

A front-page story in today’s New York Times tries to stir up alarm about liberalized carry permit laws, which let people carry concealed handguns if they meet a short list of objective criteria. To illustrate the hazards of that policy, the Times cites crimes committed by permit holders in North Carolina. How many crimes? Excluding traffic offenses, the Times counts 2,400 over five years, of which 200 were felonies. More relevant (since critics of nondiscretionary permit laws worry that they contribute to gun violence), 200 permit holders were convicted of felonies or misdemeanors, including roughly 60 who committed weapon-related assaults.” That’s a dozen gun assaults a year. How many permit holders are there in North Carolina? According to the story, “more than 240,000.” So 0.2 percent of them are convicted of a non-traffic-related offense each year, about 0.017 percent are convicted of a felony, and only 0.005 percent are convicted of a gun assault. The Times concedes that the number of permit holders convicted of crimes “represents a small percentage of those with permits.” More like “tiny.” By comparison, about 0.35 percent of all Americans are convicted of a felony each year–more than 20 times the rate among North Carolina permit holders. Continued ...

in order to get a conceal carry permit, you have to have a clean record. Considering that most criminals begin young, this would seem to only include law abiding people. Do folks suddenly have occasion to make a poor decision? Certainly. But not typically.
Swimming pools are dangerous too, should we take those away?

DCB: my valid point remains, the system is not preventing convicted criminals from keeping their permits once they get them. It seems the system , in North Carolina at least, is quick to give gun permits but slow to taketh away...even if someone commits a violent crime. Other states accept North Carolina's word that the holder is a valid permit carrier when in fact they should have been revoked. My point has nothing to do with your rant about how many of these carriers are expected to commit a felony.

So what do you suggest?  Should guns be confiscated from all permit holders because the state or government failed in taking guns away from felons?  Because the STATE failed in their job, all permit holders are punished!  It seems to me your rant should be directed at the STATE for not doing their job, not the NRA!

20 Lies, distortions and fallacies. The oil one is my favorite.   The US imports 55% -60% of their oil.  The truth, US exports more gasoline or refined oil products than imports.    Oil is shipped to gulf refineries for processing .  Just one of many liberal distortions ... 
The U.S. has become a net exporter of gasoline for the first time in fifty years. Thanks to rising production at refineries and declining demand, the United States exported more gasoline than it imported in December. The unusual development reflects the segmented U.S. energy market — the East Coast needs to import gas while the Midwest produces a surplus.

As usual, you again have a very small, and incorrect, view of the world. There is a difference between oil and gasoline. We import our oil. We export gasoline. They are not the same thing.

I know and if you read the website that sully references above it says the US is a net exporter of oil, which is a falsehood. The US is a net exporter of gasoline, that is a big difference. The US imports 60% of their oil.

Before commenting Buc next time, please read the website that is referenced (in this case sully's). My comment was in response to the falsehood about US oil exports in sully's link. Just one of 20 falsehoods, distortions and fallacies in that link. Now don't you look silly.

Great article Sully. It really does point out 20 false statements and lies regularly made by the right. Thanks for passing it along. Good website too!

Absolutely true. You should also mention that Representative Eddy is a conservative downstate Republican. I guess that where one stands on complicated issues like public pensions isn't as clearly a partisan issue as some of you would like it to be.

Republican yes, but in name only ... If you review Roger Eddy’s record of hiking taxes, increasing spending, and protecting double dipping, it should be no surprise that teachers unions and bureaucrat associations are his biggest campaign contributors.

Eddy’s record is one of untrammeled expansion of government. He gutted local property tax caps, and promoted county-by-county sales tax hikes across Illinois. Dale Righter knows that, like liberal presidential candidate John Kerry, Roger Eddy voted for the 67% income tax hike (Hb750) before he voted against it. Now, Roger Eddy won’t even pledge to repeal it.

Richard, your answer is clearly defining the problem, and not in the way that Rob is outlining it. You are blaming everything on the left. Which is understandable since your comments are always skewed heavy to the Republican right. All you did was prove what he said was true. It's the "everyone who disagrees with me is ruining the nation" mentality. It's an asinine viewpoint. We don't have a one party system, which means both sides share the problems and solutions in trying to get our nation moving in the correct direction. In a country with 311 million people, not everyone will agree on all topics. What we need to have is people who are willing to work together and meet somewhere in the middle. Not "We're right, you're wrong and d**n you for thinking anything else." The only people that ever decide elections are the independents and there is a reason they seem to sway every 4-8 years. We don't want the country to go to far in either direction and call on the other party to balance it back. The problem is that we have to listen to political meat-heads moan and complain for the duration of their oppositions term.

What ruined TRS were all the benefit enhancements which made the system unsustainable. The state never funding pensions is a falsehood. If you don't know the history of benefit enhancements, read above. which schools have "frozen pay"?

The whole concept of raising someone's salary simply because the CPI has gone up is specious at best. It's not the District's fault that the CPI increased, so why should that mandate that they spend more money on salaries - likely raising taxes, and possibly contributing to further increases in the CPI and more raises (ad nauseum).

If someone wants a raise, then they need to be more productive to earn it. This whole bit with increasing benefits as the CPI goes up is sure a nice thing, but where's that money come from? The taxpayers. New entrants into the TRS system. Just as we've seen with Social Security - it's an unsustainable ponzi scheme and it has to stop.

What you put in is what you should get out, with accrued interest (if any). No guarantees funded by the taxpayers - just like the bank - sometimes your savings is 0.25% sometimes it's 4%. I believe that people should be given two choices: 1) If you want the potential for a higher return - then YOU absorb the risk and invest it yourself, but if you lose it - tough cookies, we're not going to save you. 2) If you don't want to absorb that risk, then you get stuck with the floating variable rate of the day.

Pick one, and stop soaking the taxpayers.

Reform it going forward, and pay what the system will sustain. If some people aren't made whole that's unfortunate, but a lawsuit will go no where - the State will claim some kind of "qualified immunity", the legislators who didn't fund things will take their kickbacks and hide out in another (lower cost) State, and the Feds will (rightly) deny any assistance in helping.

Is it what they were promised? Nope. But I, Mr. Taxpayer, shouldn't have to bail out everything that lost money because of some corrupt politician. You trusted TRS to manage your money, you trusted the State to fund it. Something went wrong - your issue is with them, not the taxpayers. Do like other's do in bankruptcies - figure out how much you can get, take it, and move on.

Did you think you would get away with this falsehood on frozen pay without me fact checking? Only in the realm of public education is a salary increase, considered frozen pay to teachers. The average increase for District 69 teachers is 3.5% for FY 12 for all teachers on scale. In Fact, some teachers on scale are receiving an increase as high as 6.9%. For teachers who have made a commitment to retire, their increase is 6%. For teachers off scale and not retiring, they are receiving longevity bonuses. The teachers’ union waived the 2.5% increase to step values for FY11 and FY12, which means instead of receiving an average 6% raise, the increase is 3.5%.

The reality is that the teachers union and politicians are both to blame in creating this unsustainable situation. The rest of us suckers were too ignorant on what was going on and if someone happened to maintain that the system wasn’t sustainable, they were either vilified by the teachers union and/or ostracized in Springfield. The politicians wanted votes and the teachers union got greedier and greedier with their demands. It didn’t matter that the math didn’t work and never was going to work. As for the local school districts, they had a hand in this mess too. In their rush to restrain ever increasing salary costs, they gave out annual end-of-career raises to retiring teachers of up to 20%. This was a great way to pad a teacher’s pension and an incentive for a senior teacher to retire. When the senior teacher retired the district could then hire a younger and cheaper one. This salary savings of hiring junior teachers helped feed escalating end-of-career raises. Pension padding was only partially stopped in 2006 and now the max end of career raise is 6%, or in other words a total 26% increase in salary over four years. The school districts get away with this because they aren’t on the hook for the pension. Continued ...

Maybe if Cullerton has his way and pensions are paid at the school district level, pension padding would stop. The system was set up so that every party in this scenario (school districts, politicians, teachers union) could blame the other guy and no one was at fault. I say this was a design feature and not a bug! Please don’t tell me the TRS or school districts are innocent victims in this scenario because it’s not true.

JellyBean1: I totally sympathize with having to pay due to a Union you don't want to join - it should be the worker's choice and "Right To Work" should be the law of the land here in Illinois. If the worker deems that the union provides a value add and wants to join - by all means, let them. But if not, then they shouldn't have to pay or join.

As for putting the pensions on the Property Taxes - forget it. Our property taxes are already obscenely high, we don't need to bail out the State. I find it somewhat presumptuous to say that "Highland Park taxpayers could afford to at least give something" - perhaps some in HP could, but some couldn't or may not want to. Illinois ought just file BK and be done with all this craziness. Reset, reformulate things so they're sustainable, and move on. But to do that will require a wholesale replacement of the geniuses in Springfield.

The mainstream media is reporting the race of Martin as black, and Zimmerman as a "white hispanic". First time I've ever heard that description - strange. Mainstream news is showing the picture of Martin when he was 13. I've also seen other blogs and videos on non-mainstream sites that show pictures of Martin from his FaceBook page - he's 17, 6'3", fairly muscular and 'ripped', and is flipping gang signs. There's other pictures of him making gang slogans and with gang clothing on. Does that make him a 'bad guy' or just a wannabe? Who knows? On another site - they have a video that was on a local news station where the reporter was interviewing an EMT who stated that Zimmerman had been treated for severe bruising, including a bleeding wound to the BACK of his head. Apparently Martin attacked Zimmerman when Zimmerman asked him what he was doing in the gated community because they'd had a lot of breakins recently, and someone trying to disguise himself with a raised hood was apparently roaming around a house and it appeared suspicious. When asked, Martin started punching Zimmerman, and ended up knocking him down and continuing to beat Zimmerman with his fists. Zimmerman somehow retrieved his licensed, concealed weapon and took action to preserve his life. Unfortunately, his attacker (Martin) didn't fare so well. Is this true? Who am I to know? I suppose we'll see when the Jury sorts it out.

This shouldn't be about race. Just whether a crime was committed or not.

I don't assume that Martin did not attack Zimmerman in some way. That's for the police, DA and courts to sort out. I am puzzled how in America (Florida at least) its okay for one civilian to confront another and ask them what they are doing? You can't do that. A beating should not be a reaction to that question, but still...you can't go around confronting people like that. If this is what happened, did Zimmerman do this pursuit and questioning in a threating manner? He was told by police to stop the pursuit. Did he? Apparently not. Lots to sort out and Zimmerman walking without so much as a serious questioning much less an arrest is just wrong.

sure professionals want to negotiate a good contract. But in this case we're talking about PUBLIC employees - public employyes are supposed to make a lower salary because the public is funding thei salaries. In exchange, the public returns the favor by funding pensions so the public employee is 'covered' in their old age. But as I've said many times before - as the salary goes up, the public's contribution should decrease because the public employee's salary isapproaching or exceeding that which they could have eared in the private sector. As for going to a private university - dealing with the cost is the student's issue. It's not incumbent on anyone, especially the taxpayers, to pay someone more just so they can pay their loans back. That's something for the student to determine when evaluating careers and choosing a school. I've known plenty of teachers who went both routes - public or private universities - and all are fine teachers. I've also known many teachers who didn't get into it for the economics - they got into it because they enjoy teaching. If someone wants more money than we're paying or they feel 'screwed', they're free to seek other employment. Certainly out of the 60,000 teachers in the pipeline, we will be able to find a replacement who can do the job equally as well.

I agree the best teachers should be able to negotiate their own contract, but that isn’t what happens now. Everyone from the dregs to the exceptional get the same salary/step increases. And believe me, there are dregs even in the best schools. I believe the market place is where this salary setting should happen. BTW, why does a gym teacher even need a master’s? I would rather pay a really good math or science teacher $200K than a superintendent the same and that’s how it should be. Most teacher salaries are too high, except for the exceptional teachers and STEM teachers. Another thing, if teachers spend so much money and time on professional development why does innovation always come from outside the field. Why is it places like Khan Academy and people like Sugata Mitra not come from the ranks of educators? When innovation tries to rear its ugly head, the first thing professional educators will do is criticize and downplay it. Just like JellyBean criticized Khan. The only changes teachers want are smaller classrooms and more IPADS to jazz up the presentation. Unfortunately the presentation has not changed in over 200 years. I know one school that tried flip-learning and you couldn’t believe the ruckus the teachers made on having to change. Let’s face it, unions don’t like change and fight it tooth and nail.

it'd certainly be nice for them to get back 100% of their principal, plus accrued interest. However, sometimes investments don't go as planned and one loses money. if that happens, it's certainly unfortunate, but again, the issue is with those who were entrusted to fund and manage the pensions. the taxpayers shouldn't be expected to bail anyone out.

"Adjustment for inflation", you got to be kidding. Let me get this straight, every year a teacher should get a step increase and an adjustment for inflation! No wonder a referendum is needed every couple of years to cover the district's budget shortfall! And there we go with the insult to Khan Academy. As I mentioned before, unions abhor change, especially change that might reduce the number of FTEs or salaries.

I don't know who removed my comment, but here goes. You can tell I won this argument because JellyBean starts in with the name calling and insults. And here we go with insulting Khan academy again. With three masters, two from Northwestern you would think you could come up with a more cogent argument than "teacher hater" and "jilted by a hottie", but then again I'm not as highly edukated as you.

Do kids now learn how to add, subtract, multiply and divide (simple arithmetic) in high school? Again, you know nothing about the videos or the academy or how Khan sees the future, you just parrot back some mumbo jumbo about emotional learning. As for social skills, those have been getting worse not better for a long time. I'm not blaming the schools for that, but parents. It's not the schools job to teach social skills as far as I'm concerned. Besides, it's usually just a code word for liberal indoctrination when schools want to add it to their curriculum.

I knew how to read by the time I was two.Was doing basic math by the time I was 3 or 4. All attributable to my mother who used flash cards and sat with me for countless hours because she knew this was important stuff, and she wanted me to know it BEFORE I went to school.I dare say that much of the social skills kids learn comes from their parents and family, THEN from their peers/school. Who'd you meet first in life? Deal with the most first in life?Hopefully it was the parents/family.That's where you learned about religion, "Jewish Geography" (or whatever your religion's version of it is), ethnic foods, cultural beliefs, what's right/wrong, good/evil, sharing, etc...Then you went to school and discovered that not everyone is like you and learned more. Then you made friends and learned even more. To continue along the line - you got on the Internet and discovered an entirely different set of ettiquite, spelling, methods of expressing emotion, discovering new things, and discussing things with people all over the Planet that you've never met face-to-face.No one learning technique is the be-all-end-all, rather all contribute in some way.

No one's saying "park an elementary student in front of a screen for 8 hours" - but rather utilize different innovative techniques to ENHANCE education. As kids get older, and are better able to be more self-directed (not all, but some), we can utilize more self-directed learning to better allocate teachers throughout the District.

Sorry Dead bounced cat- I was joking about saying that you got jilted by a hottie kindergarten teacher. Hard to tell here with a computer- You lose all those pragmatic cues.

Good luck with your own children if you've got them. I'm wondering where they currently go to school?
Perhaps you should keep them out of school and use Khan academy to teach them, since you believe in it so much. Let us all know how that works out for you.

for David Greenberg- Yes, many schools are using technology as supplements- My own school uses Extra Math to practice math, as well as a variety of online reading programs to help students practice. I wish that more parents were to teach social skills at home, but this is not the reality. HOward Gardner, a professor from Harvard, the man who conined the idea "7 INtelligences," spoke at New Trier last year on this very topic. His new book "5 Minds for the Future" is all about being ethical and developiing a connective mind. He used the entire speech at New Trier to talk about the importance of TEACHING kids to be ethical in schools. I questioned him on this topic, because I too used to believe that ethics and social skills was the work of the parents and/or religion. Gardner told me that our culture has changed and for many children, and that school is the last bastion to teach ethics. If you want more on this, go buy his book, or google his work on this topic. His research changed my mind. I wish that children all came to school as prepared as you were- but this is not reality. WE can play the blame game here, but I prefer to just get to work meeting children where they are at and getting them ready for the future.

JellyBean1: Believe me, I completely understand that many parents don't teach social skills or ethics at home - unfortunate but true. And the reasons for that would be a whole other thread of discussion which would likely delve into topics that would generate another 300 comments or so :-)

Ethics can be taught, but ultimately it's all lip service until the role models in the person's life "walk the talk"- whether it's a teacher, a parent, or an honest politician - if that person doesn't practice what they preach, those ethics lessons are going straight out the window.

As for whether the school should act in loco parentis to ensure a child is endowed with some version of ethics, or should merely teach classes in it and leave the endowment portion to the role model in the Student's life is another discussion as well.

As for Dr. Gardner's theories - yep, I agree, people learn in different ways. So yes, definitely, we need to tweek our learning methods from those tried-and-true Chalkboard and Lecturer of the past to a mix that will meet the needs of today's highly connected students.
But before we throw money at things willy-nilly, it behooves us to have an overall master plan - one which puts forth goals in plain English that a taxpayer w/o an EdD or PhD or MSED can understand, one which clearly defines how the educational outcomes will be POSITIVELY impacted, and which will provide for metrics to be baselined and ultimately measured against so we can track performance, and continuously improve. Once we have a master plan, we can design curriculum, and craft tests to determine how to best target the learning needs for the students (I've seen too many gifted students get short-changed by teaching methods that didn't meet their needs). But that's the easy part. The hardest part IMHO is getting the Unions to buy in. Such methods will change the status quo of teaching - some people will lose jobs, some jobs will be created, others will be expected to do something different, salaries and benefits will have to change as well, District infrastructure will need to be changed, and perhaps some laws as well. Performance evaluations will have to change - and as we've seen already with D109, that's a point of contention. The only thing that's certain? It won't be easy or quick.

I agree with you David and that's what makes the internet so invaluable in being  a resource for a  more individualized education.    The teacher's role will change to one of a coach or facilitator.   Watch the TED series with Sugata Mitra and the child driven education and you will be blown away.   flip-learning is another innovative trend in education that inverts the teaching process, The lesson content becomes the homework and class time is for problem solving,  small group assignments and projects.   The role of the teacher changes from presenter of content to a learning coach, spending time talking to kids, answering questions, working with small groups, and guiding the learning of each student individually
I've come to distrust these so called Education experts working in public education.

JellyBean1: Yep, I did run for D113 School Board, 10 candidates for 4 positions. I came in 5th, missing a seat by about 360 or so votes. I plan to run again. We're typically in the Top 10, but our two schools vary in rankings because of student demographics. There's more to attract candidates to this District than just money - students who want to learn, and not getting shot at while walking to school are two big bonuses (compare to Chicago Public Schools). I agree - NCLB is ridiculous. There's no way that 100% of students will be able to hit the targets - and the reasons for that are pretty numerous themselves. Yet, to get the Federal Money, schools chase after NCLB. In our District, the Federal money is about $2M out of a $92M budget - I've oft wondered just how much we're spending on NCLB-related activities, and whether the $2M from the Feds covers those costs and the rest of the Federal mandates - if not, I believe we ought to consider foregoing the Federal money. I've been told that if we don't take their money, we don't have to comply with their mandates. Then maybe we could get back to the business of educating as many kids as possible, and stop chasing after test scores because one of our schools hasn't made "Adequate Yearly Progress" because of a few demographic subgroups...

It's not all about wealthy school districts  jellybean and I'm shocked that you think it is.  Numerous studies have shown that the biggest predictor to student success has little to do with race/ethnicity, socioeconomic level, parent education level or parental figures in the home, but rather how conducive the home environment is to learning and how involved the parents are with the child, school and community. 

Wow, you really didn't watch the video, did you.

For years, teachers like Thordarson have complained about the frustrations of teaching to the “middle” of the class. They stand at the whiteboard, trying to get 25 or more students to learn the same stuff at the same pace. And, of course, it never really works: Advanced kids get bored and tune out, lagging ones get lost and tune out, and pretty soon half the class isn’t paying attention. Since the rise of personal computers in the early ’80s, educators have hoped that technology could solve this problem by offering lessons tailored to each kid. Schools have blown millions, maybe billions, of dollars on sophisticated classroom technology, but the effort has been in vain.

Everything that Rush Limbaugh says about liberals (progressives) is confirmed in this thread. Liberals (progressives) simply can't compete in the arena of ideas. They have to resort to censorship and misinformation/disinformation.

Notice Sully's response to my post about the Martin attack on Zimmerman-no response by Sully. Liberals/progressives spun that one to make Zimmerman the attacker, but it turns out that Martin attacked Zimmerman and Zimmerman was simply defending himself. And there are witnesses to these facts-you got caught spinning disinformation once again Sully.

Not a peep out of Sully or RB about the racially motivated attack on a white 13 year old by two black teen-age males in Kansas City at the end of February or the gang rape, sexual torture and murder of Channon Christain by 5 young blacks in Knoxville. Apparently, it's OK for young blacks to attack whites as for as liberals/progressives are concerned.

Your lack on condemnation of violence is morally reprehensible, but the game that you're playing is obvious-let's encourage racial violence to take everybody's mind off of the Obama depression. The left is morally bankrupt.

Of course, this will be deleted-the left simply can't stand to face the truth. Just 10 more months of Obama thug government.

Rich, I did respond and it's been deleted. Remember my post acknowledging other deaths being similar and that there were other Emmit Tills? Seems your posts are not the only ones subject to deletion. I'm getting tired of beating my head against the wall and the deletion of my threads.

At would seem that at practically every chance they get, the American people reject the left's political agenda. The fact that the constitutionality of Obamacare is being questioned is an indication that the left does not respect the United States Constitution. Certainly, it would seem that the constitutionality of any law should be addressed prior to the implementation of the law, yet the Obama Administration has proceeded full-steam ahead with the implementation of Obamacare prior to the issue being addressed by the Supreme Court.

Government only works with the consent of the governed. President Obama has been exercising power against the will of the people. Any president who exercises power without the consent of the governed should be removed from office. Given that an election will be held in little over 7 months, impeachment and removal from office makes no sense-the American people have the opportunity to remove President Obama from office at the ballot box.

Governor Walker recall will also be decided at the ballot box. I fully expect that the people of Wisconsin will recognize "thug" politics and once again make the same decision as was made in November 2010.

Endless elections to prevent Governor Walker from governing is not what was intended by the Wisconsin Constitution. If Democrats want to impeach Governor Walker and remove him from office, they should proceed with impeachment.

Mine disappear from time to time too. As I've said, I don't agree with much that he says but I agree he has a right to say it.

You know, I don't agree with you on anything, but this is ridiculous. I think I had one post taken down awhile back, which ironically was a shot at you. Nothing offensive, as I recall.

The thing about you Rich and so many in the right is that you want to save Iraq and the rest of the world (you successfully liberated Iraq from their electricty, and running water, while liberating us from wearing shoes through security at the airport) and expect to do so without raising the necessary revenue. Bridges and roads crumble at home etc....and somehow you expect to pay for these wars and 'homeland security' without raising the revenue, just by cutting social services and not funding what it takes to run America.

I disagree. Think about all those colorful D46 articles that started with a school board meeting and, 400+ posts later, wound up in the same territory this one has drifted into and further. The only difference I see is that Mr. Schulte is much more articulate than our northern Lake County right wingers, and these more "genteel" Patch editors are way quicker to hit the delete button.

I'm gonna bet that post gets removed. But it's a good one.

I doubt it's Union's taking his posts down. As far as topic, you are correct. I asked about 300 posts ago how Romney would pay for higher teacher salaries if he is so dead set against new revenue. He would have to cut somewhere else. Police? Fire? Mental Health? Where? So much on this board has been about Special Education in our schools. Do you think for one minute there won't be cuts in those areas too if Romney gets elected and holds to his no new revenue pledge. Something has to give somewhere and if he's in office it won't be on Wall Street it will be Main street, nursing homes, schools, etc. absorbing the cuts.
Rich, as far as Rush. Thanks for letting me know he had an extra special show today, it reminded me to make an additional donation to Obama 2012!

Because no first lady ever took a vacation before Michelle. What is she thinking taking her kids on a family vacation? What kind of communist ideal is a family vacation?

Interesting. For facts, I read the NYT. For opinion, David Brooks, Roger Cohen, William Pfaff and Thomas Friedman regularly. TV and radio, it's PBS and NPR. I guess that makes me a socialist.

Illinois unemployment stats: http://www.ides.illinois.gov/?item=2985&newssidebar=1

That does help put his positions in perspective doesn't it. "our women". Like he owns them. Like they are not fierce in their own right. Like, maybe you tell them what to do with their bodies. You go Rich. Rich, you may be a hopeless case. Continue your worship of Rush and the right....you go. Every ridiculous thing you say helps my case for a more rational society than you and your friends on the extreme right could ever contribute toward. Obama 2012!